Adrian Rogers – Satan’s choice for evil and man’s free will (1)

Interviewer- While we’re talking about evil, why does God allow evil on the earth?

Adrian Rogers-

Do you know? That’s a great question and I’ve seen today that more people are perplexed with that question (the problem of evil) than the problem of science. When I started the ministry, people were talking about evolution and whether or not man was created, and they’re not that interested in that question today. They say if there is a God, how can he allow, for example, what happened in New York, on Sept. the 11th? How could God allow the atrocities of war and the devastation we have in the world today?

What about the problem of evil? And people have a little syllogism (conclusion or logical appeal). Before God there was nothing, God created everything, evil is something, so God created evil, so God must be evil. That’s faulty syllogism.

When God made the devil, the Bible says,…and by the way- God created the devil. The devil is not self existent as God is. Only One is self existent. That is God. When God created Satan, he created him in perfection. God did not create evil, God created a perfect being. In Ezekiel chapter 28, God said of Satan, „You were perfect in beauty and the day that you were created, you were perfect.” He’s created, created in perfection.

God did not create evil. He created a perfect being, but now listen. He gave that perfect being, perfect freedom. Now, why did God give the angels  freedom and why does God give us freedom?

Photo(C) by http://www.martin-liebermann.de”

Because God wants worship and God wants love. If God made me, where I were not free, why couldn’t I choose to do evil? Then, correspondently, I couldn’t choose to do good. If I can not choose not to love God, I can’t choose to love God. If I can’t choose to be loyal to God, I cannot choose to be disloyal. I would only choose to be an inanimate object, a robot or whatever. So, God created a being, perfect in wisdom and perfect in beauty and that being chose to sin. Now, what is the highest good? The highest good, the greatest commandment is to love God. That is the greatest commandment. This is the first and great commandment. Therefore, that is the highest good- to love God. Well, in order to love God, I have to have a choice. And, so, God gave us a choice that we might attain the highest good. And, Satan had that choice and he blew it, he ruined it through pride.

15 comentarii (+add yours?)

  1. Gabi Bogdan
    sept. 17, 2011 @ 00:55:19

    „Because God wants worship and God wants love”
    Yep, God needs us, he needs our love!
    Arminian humanistic theology!

    • rodi
      sept. 17, 2011 @ 02:45:06

      Rogers’ point is that God does not want forced love, as another preacher I know stated „God did not make us robots 🙂
      This is a big sticking point because of the evangelistic implications so it is not looked at as a stand alone issue, but starting Monday I have a few more posts on free will and then the divide really comes in how and whom to evangelize and I have some posts on that. I am still surprised that there are no in depth (good) books contrasting the arguments point by point, but each side puts up strawmen verses to knock down from the opposition and then puts up verses supporting their point, but ignore other verses that are questionably related. And I’m sure there are some questions that just don’t have straight answers. Oh well, I wasn’t going to delve into this, but I came across a Spurgeon book and it pried the door open again.

  2. Gabi Bogdan
    sept. 17, 2011 @ 10:28:02

    Of course we are not robots.But if God does not force anybody, than why pray for people salvation? Most people i know do not want to come to Him by their own „free will”. The bible say that we are dead, slaves to sin, no one comes to the light, no one seeks God. In our natural state we dont have free will.
    It is like: you tell a blind man that he has to see , or a dead man that he has to walk. Heal him first, or give him life, and of course than you can give them the command to see or to walk.Now , this is where it become dicey , some say that once ” alive, you can not refuse the offer. I tend to disagree with that. But i am not sure.

    • rodi
      sept. 17, 2011 @ 13:25:41

      I agree that man in his sinful nature can not come to God by his own free will and one of the posts next week is very good at explaining it with supporting bible verses.
      However, one big point of contention that is not adequately explained is the problem of evil and where is the dividing line between man’s evil action and God’s sovereignty. This angle is primarily addressed by christian apologists, but I wish some of the preachers would delve into this topic or maybe some have done this and I should pray to come across their sermons 🙂 I am finding this to be a sticking point with people around me, so I am looking for help here. Because I know that for myself I can believe and have faith in things unseen, but Peter exhorts us to always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.
      Adrian Rogers brings up a good point too, it may be that God opens our eyes to see the truth but do we really believe he forces our heart to love Him? So maybe there are different components to the will. And what is the human responsibility in all this?
      There’s a great book I am reading that might be of interest to you. It’s a short book (168 pages)titled „Spurgeon v. Hyper-Calvinism” by Iain H. Murray in which Murray(who has written several good biographies) that contrasts Spurgeon’s calvinism with hyper-calvinism, but in the process gives really good insight to the issues we are studying. Book is available here and probably at amazon too. This was another invaluable find in my dad’s library which I will now post from.

  3. gabi bogdan
    sept. 18, 2011 @ 02:05:02

    Another good book that i am now reading it on my EVO, is the biography of Spurgeon. http://www.spurgeon.org/misc/biopref.htm What a amazing life. Thanks for tip on Iain Murray. I will get to that book next. Piper has the best explanation I found on Youtube.

    The problem with arminians is they always bring their logic to the bible forgetting that what makes sense for man it is not always biblical.

    The arminians can not understand what an antinomy is.

    • rodi
      sept. 18, 2011 @ 10:26:52

      I like the fact that Piper says he doesn’t have an answer, ultimately Spurgeon says the same thing so it’s not hard to understand that arminians (most non-reformed evangelical lay people have little or no knowledge of the arminian/calvinist tenets or much theology for that matter) have trouble understanding this. From what I have read, calvinism has made a comeback in the last century therefore it is still somewhat new theology, it’s only because of John Piper’s outstanding preaching and writing coupled with the resurgence of calvinism in the younger generation, that we are all reading and learning about it.

      I think the Murray book is very enlightening because we Romanians will identify and share in his theology. The biography you are reading is also very good, I’ve read bits of it.

  4. Gabi Bogdan
    sept. 18, 2011 @ 17:26:03

    Romanians before1989 were Calvinistic (with out knowing). They did not have access to many books, so most had the bible only. And when you are only given the Bible, i think is impossible to come to any other conclusion.

    • rodi
      sept. 19, 2011 @ 02:34:46

      Da pentru ca nimeni nu i-a acuzat ca sunt calvinisti. The connotation carries too heavy a burden for us. If you take the words out of the equation you’ll find a lot more agreement 🙂 from a lot more people. And sometimes showing someone several translations to see that those verses are actually in the Bible (not a mistranslation) you’ll get even further. But I just have to say that there is a lot lost in the translation (into Romanian) and I am not referring to Cornilescu, just the words in general do not translate well, it seems like the Romanian language is poor in synonyms so we use the same word to translate over and over for many different words because that is the only word we have.

  5. Trackback: Free will (4) and prayer/petition « agnus dei – english + romanian blog
  6. Martin Liebermann (@zeitspuren)
    nov. 29, 2011 @ 06:52:54

    Hello,

    you have used my copyrighted image “Crossroads” for your blog without my permission, without giving me author credits and without copyright information. You can see my original here:http://www.flickr.com/photos/liebermann/580181284/

    Like texts, images have authors that deserve to be credited and payed, you also need their permission if you use their work. This is regulated by copyright law.

    I am a professional photographer, but I will not bill you for the non-commercial use of my work.
    Instead, I deserve and demand to be credited properly – please add a byline “(C) by http://www.martin-liebermann.de” (with link) to the image.

    Please stay safe and fair when using other peoples intellectual/artistic property. Images “found on the internet” are NOT free to use – unless the author tells you so. Using them without permission and author credits is not only prohibited. It is also part of a „culture of entitlement” that is nothing but an expropriation of artists. We are the people who have spent a lot of time and money to create the works you carelessly use without giving anything in return.

    Kind regards

    Martin Liebermann
    license@martin-liebermann.de

    • rodi
      nov. 29, 2011 @ 10:20:29

      Hi Martin,
      agreed and done. Please accept my apologies. Rodica

      • Martin Liebermann (@zeitspuren)
        nov. 29, 2011 @ 10:51:20

        Hello Rodica,

        thanks for the immediate response. If you consider to use more of my work, look for images licensed under Creative Commons – for the rest, please ask me before using them.

        Kind regards

        Martin Liebermann

        • rodi
          nov. 29, 2011 @ 11:51:39

          Martin, I really appreciate the tone of your note as I am sure you run into this problem a lot. There are a lot of us novice bloggers, who unfortunately for you (photographers) learn as we go. I realize I have to be careful as some of the pictures I have used come from facebook or other forums and I realize now that people tend to collect pictures that they did not actually take and I will have to scrutinize the source by googling the image.

          By the way, I spent a good hour looking through your blog and flickr account and your photos are very impressive! Thanks for offering the use of them, I will certainly ask you (quite soon). I hope one day you will make it to my country of birth and childhood- Romania, to take some pictures there, too. Just to give you an example of the shots awaiting there, here is a link to an online friend „Paul Ion” who takes photos there (and in some neighboring countries as well)-http://www.panoramio.com/user/1063344?comment_page=1&photo_page=1

          • Martin Liebermann (@zeitspuren)
            nov. 30, 2011 @ 03:53:48

            Rodica,

            the unattributed/unlicensed use of images is epidemic. I have found more than thousand copies of my works already. For the „Crossroads” image, the rate of licensed/pirated is smaller than 1:50.

            I know that it can be difficult and sometimes impossible to find the copyright holder of a picture. That’s why I only bill commercial users (they should exercise diligence), but insist on proper author credits by bloggers. When searching for authors, try the „reverse image search” function of Tineye or Google – that may help.

            I’d really love to visit Romania – I’m a fan of long distance bicycle tours, and there are some very intersting routes in/through Romania. One day …

            KInd regards

            Martin

            • rodi
              nov. 30, 2011 @ 11:49:04

              Thanks for the tip on Tineye; I downloaded the app on Firefox and will use it. If you ever do get to Romania, I would be thrilled to see your photos, and I hope you take many. I did subscribe to your rss feed, but that is not too user frinedly for me. Maybe you will research wordpress and see if switching could be an option. It is much more user friendly because people can subscribe to you both by email and by wordpress, if they have a blog. Thanks for your kindness,glad to know you and hope to delight in your photos from time to time.
              Rodica

Blogosfera Evanghelică

Vizite unicate din Martie 6,2011

free counters

Va multumim ca ne-ati vizitat azi!


România – LIVE webcams de la orase mari

%d blogeri au apreciat: