Rob Bell – 2 video interviews, his evolving views on hell and homosexuality

English: Rob Bell at the 2011 Time 100 gala.

In case you missed these the first time around, here are both videos again:

Part of a wider discussion on the Unbelievable? radio show/podcast. To hear the full debate:

Rob Bell returns to Unbelievable? 2 years after his debate on the controversial best-seller ‘Love Wins,’ to talk about his latest book ‘What we talk about when we talk about God’.

Andrew Wilson is an author and theologian with the New Frontiers church network. He quizzes Rob about his view of God, and his recently stated support for gay marriage.
For more theological discussion between Christians visit (Photo via wikipedia)

(1) Rob Bell and Andrew Wilson /

Homosexuality & The Bible

(2) Rob Bell and Adrian Warnock /

The Book ‘Love Wins’

VIDEO by Revival House

Betrayed with a Kiss – Eric Ludy

There is a conspiracy in our midst to undermine our confidence in the Word of God. This message was preached after Rob Bell’s trailer for his new book „Love wins” debuted.

God doesn’t stutter. He knows what He is saying and it is up to us to get our ridiculous post modern junk out of the way, the cultural entrap pings, the social sensibilities, the political correctness out of the way so we can allow God just to speak straight to us. He says it and He means it. And He’s meant it for 6,000 years ever since it began. He knows what He’s doing  and He’s not caught off guard with our culture. 

The enemy deserves a litlle credit: The brilliance of sneaking liberal thinking into the modern conservative church. The Satanic agenda to undermine the church today is not dead. The entire next generation of Christian leadership is being defined by men such as Donald Miller, Rob Bell and Brian MacLaren. The collegiates are buying their books in droves.

The entire message is transcribed below the video published on Jun 6, 2012 by :

Betrayed with a Kiss – The conspiracy of the modern prophet by Eric Ludy

Eric Ludy is Pastor of the Ellerslie Church in Windsor, Colorado. You can visit his website here

Luke 22:46-49

“Why are you sleeping?” he asked them. “Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.”47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48 but Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?” 49 When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?”

Ezekiel 22:23-31

23 Again the word of the Lord came to me: 24 “Son of man, say to the land, ‘You are a land that has not been cleansed or rained on in the day of wrath.’ 25 There is a conspiracy of her princes within her like a roaring liontearing its prey; they devour people, take treasures and precious things and make many widows within her. 26 Her priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them. 27 Her officials within her are like wolves tearing their prey; they shed blood and kill people to make unjust gain. 28 Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says’—when the Lord has not spoken.29 The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the foreigner, denying them justice.

30 “I looked for someone among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found no one.31 So I will pour out my wrath on them and consume them with my fiery anger, bringing down on their own heads all they have done, declares the Sovereign Lord.

(1) The Word of God IS the Word of God

  • The Word of God IS the Word of God. Today a version of „Did God really say?” permeates the churches. The word of God didn’t come about accidentally; it was not voted on in 300 A.D. – it was understood by the Church for those 300 years. Everyone knew it. They formalized it? Why? Because it was under SIEGE. The basis of our belief is that the Word of God cannot lie! It cannot lie! Note 1 Thessalonians 2:13- And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, as it is in truth, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe. Hebrews 6:18 – …it is impossible for God to lie” Numbers 23:19- God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?  If you believe the Word of God is the word of men, your foundations will fail you. But, if you want to build upon a rock, then you take God at His Word. The Word of God is the Word of God and the Word of God is as God is: It cannot lie. Therefore, when you have those foundation points, you are not shaken.

The appeal of the open mind

  • Discusses closed mind, narrow mind and open mind. The appeal of the open mind is that it appears more reasonable, more generous, more accepting, more hospitable, more socially-correct. An open mind is a „door open” policy. Everyone of us is predisposed to the „open mind” option.
  • Definition of Closed Mind– A mind that ignorantly and belligerently dismisses and excludes actual facts from having any say in the formation of his/her reality. A mind not open to reasonable discussion, not open for the business of discussing truth. (This is a fantastic environment for cults to foster.
  • Definition of Narrow Mind – a mind that strictly filters all fact and information through an individual’s or small group of individual’s small finite human worldview and experience. A mind unable to break out of traditional, religious and/or cultural moorings to accept  that truth is bigger than what can be comprehended by a singular person or closed off group of people.
  • Definition of Open Mind – A mind that is reasonable and judicious with facts, desirous to learn, accepting of all, ever-ready to consider new and novel thoughts, a mind hospitable to all notions whether true or false. A mind open to anything and everything, eager to chew on ideas never before considered.
  • The Christian OptionThe Canon Mind – not to be narrow minded, not to be closed minded nor open minded (even though it sounds terrible to say we are not open minded. We are open minded to one thing: To God. And, how are we open minded to God? To His Word.) We are seemingly closed to the world. But, it is God’s worldview and He know more than everyone else. He’s the one that created the heavens and the earth. Don’t you think His world view is a pretty good one to reason through? If you’re going to have a filter, that’s a bout a good as one as you’re going to get. That’s Christianity: It’s fidelity and faithfulness to One. I do not have an open marriage, for instance. I have a marriage that is closed off to any other invasive force; anything else that would try to get in, I don’t share and say, „Come on in”. I am exclusive to my wife. You would say, „That’s good”. That’s right, and that’s what it means to be exclusive to Jesus Christ. His Word is our guide and anything that would tend to contradict it, undermine it is kept outside the house. It might sound closed and it might sound narrow, actually it’s life and life abundant.
  • Canon Mind – A mind given wholly to God, implicitly trusting God’s definition of reality, exclusively devoted to God’s opinion and command, closed to all thoughts, ideas, or philosophies that would lead the mind to another take on reality. The Canon Mind is a mind built on God’s Word as if it were in fact the Word of God. The Canon Mind is built upon the rock-like conviction that God’s Word is the perfect revelation of Fact, it cannot lie and is 100% Truth and the Canon Mind knows that God intends for His Word to be comprehended by His saints, understood by His saints, and lived out by His saints. The Canon Mind is not open to any thought, notion, or definition of reality that is not 100% concurrent with the Revelation of God’s Word. IF IT DOESN’T ALIGN WITH THE WORD OF GOD, IT’S OUT. (Acts 17:11)

Nooma videos and post-modern mush

  • Repainting the Christian faith – The videos repaint Truthby leveraging the confidence gained to sink the Church into error and the questioning of biblical authority. The enemy has been behind this exact process since the beginning
  • The gush of post-modern mush- A pseudo-intellectualism that roosts high above the Bible, looking down with a compassionate gaze upon the notions of the „archaic” text. Post-modernism has overtaken the church of Jesus Christ today. It does not demand logic. As a result you can have 2 contradictory thoughts coexist and that is why these men can literally undermine something by saying, „Well, I don’t know that I believe the virgin birth, but I esteem the virgin birth because I am an orthodox Christian”. What? How in the world can you say both things? Well, it’s a pseudo-intellectualism which means it’s fake intellectualism. These guys think they’re smart. They’re above the Bible, looking down, as if they can survey and tweak it however they choose, but they have a „compassionate” gaze saying, „Oh, this poor thing; this Bible’s gone through such hard times, it’s so misunderstood today… the poor text of Scripture. You know, God means well, but I think He needs me to help Him along, in this generation- to sort of clarify His heart.” And so, as a result, they take a position of „above” the Word of God with a „compassionate” gaze  to help along the „limping, archaic” text.

Your position on the Word defines your response to the Word

  • Above it – If you’re above the word, it defines how you respond to it: You critique, correct, and contour it to meet your sensibilities. „I understand our culture God, and I realize You make some harsh statements about homosexuality here, but I don’t think you realize what You’re getting yourself into. If You want to be attractive to anyone in this culture You can’t take that hard line. The way You talk about women here is very misunderstood in our culture so we’re gonna have to gender neutralize this Bible because this is going to offend women.
  • Equal to it – Esteem it as good, treat it as friend, bask in its kind phrases, but ignore its call to give up all. It’s just a buddy. Buddies can’t command you what to do. Buddies can encourage you and do nice things for you. If you’re equal with the Bible, it does not have lordship over your life.
  • Below it – Believe it with unquestioning fervor, reckon it with unwavering Faith, and bend to it with loyal, worshipful devotion.
  • Most people, when they see that list say, „Man, I don’t like this word „control”. I don’t like this, that sounds cult like. Ok, so God’s running a cult. Call Christianity whatever you want, but, God rules in Christianity. God bought our bodies with the price of His blood and we have unyielding devotion unto our God. Unreticent, unequivocal, we give ourselves to our God. We say, „Take us, have us because You’re right, if You say You bought us and if You say that we must be mastered by someone, either sin or You, I choose You”.

Bizarre conclusion of those roosting above

  • The uncrucified conclusions of fleshly reasoning.
  • Brickianity. Rob Bell brings out this notion of brickianity. He says’ „Those who create a hard line fact out of truth, out of the Word of God”, he calls brickianity. It’s hard, always a wall and resistance. He says, „But we want to reason,we want to bring out new thought, no brick wall in front of us”. And he mocks it and offers something different.
  • Bell: Truth stretches, it’s springy. That truth is far more, instead of being all hard and unmoving, truth is springy, like the springs of a trampoline. This is what he says in his book „Velvet Elvis”. Whoever jumps on it (trampoline) depending on their weight, defines how deep the springs stretch. So springs stretch, or truth stretches to fit you, your unique needs, your unique demands. How Bell proposes this, is he goes back and uses a lot of rabbinical types of things, always talking about Hebrew and Jewish culture and as a result it sounds very believable because he sounds like he knows more about it than „I” do. So there’s a statement where Jesus says to the disciples that He has given them the keys to the kingdom and what they loose will be loosed in heaven and what they bind on earth will be bound in heaven and so of course since none of us have a clue as to what that means, he (Bell) injects his opinion. His opinion is, „Did God really say?” That’s one big key he is sticking in the lock right here.
  • The Keys to the Kingdom– Bell proposes: God has given us the keys of the Kingdom, us as a church. And, in every generation we are responsible to take that key and to stick it in the text of Scripture and to turn it so we can make Scripture malleable to our current generation. We can change Scripture to mean what it needs to mean, today, so that Christianity will be effective. Is that our end goal? Our end goal is the glory of Jesus Christ, implicit trust in Jesus Christ. He has His children. Is the Word of God changeable? Does the Word of God alter?
  • Evolution of truth– They believe, Brian MacLaren presses this one heavily, that truth is constantly changing, so therefore we need to realize that God is always adapting His truth to meet the current culture in which we are. Of course, you believe in evolution. That’s a basic understanding now. Right? Because it’s been taught in the school system your entire life. So, because we now believe evolutionism as fact, we can also understand that God evolves and HIs Word evolves. I mean some of these things were written thousands of years ago. You’re actually going to believe (chuckle, chuckle) that it’s accurate and reasonable and effective for today? Without us being able to consider the fact that culture has changed? See, God is love and that hasn’t changed, but how He expresses His love is now new today.
  • God A and God B. I choose God B. Brian MacLaren actually has a line in his book „Generous Orthodoxy” where he describes 2 Gods: God A and God B. For God A he describes all these characteristics that are very distasteful: God is judgmental, God is a God of wrath, God is a disciplinarian; and then he describes God B: Kind, loving, patient, gentle. Ahh, I love God B. He says, „I choose God B”. Mr MacLaren, you don’t have a choice who God is. You have no business attempting to define God, God already defined HImself. Whether you like it or not, He is who He is; whether you believe He is or not. Our opinions on the issues of God mean diddly squat in heaven. We either adapt to who God is or we find ourselves in a very miserable place some day in the future. God is right, let every man be a liar, who would attempt to defy the realities of our God.
  • I personally couldn’t serve a God who would do that. Brian MacLaren spends a lot of time talking about the Old Testament and says if God hasn’t changed then we have a serious problem because how are we to explain all these terrible things that God did in the Old Testament? He wiped out entire people groups. If we can’t say our God has changed, how can we be Christians? How can we represent this? Somewhere down the line, God  is who He is, whether we like it or not and we submit to Him, even if He was a bad God. Why? Because He is God and He gets what He is after.  There is also a layering fact. He is revealed in the Word of God as being perfect, upright, good, perfect in His judgement, perfect in His mercies. So, whatever God is being defined here in the Old Testament,  (by the way He is the same God yesterday, today and forever) isn’t altered. So, if you don’t like Him in the Old testament, you’re not gonna like Him now, or in the future. Same God. You don’t change Him. He changes you.
  • The open mind is a more Honest and Humble mind –  these men are very humble in their approach. They will say, „I don’t know that I’m right, but here’s what I think on the matter. And it’s very studious, glasses on the nose and it’s very gentle and caring. Let’s enter into conversation here. I don’t know if I’m right, it’s just my thoughts. Yeah, their thoughts are one big „Did God really say?” „And, did God really say that also?”  We have a serpent in sheep’s clothing and it’s very dangerous.

What we believe

  • The Open Record– 1 John 5:10 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. God gave us a record: „This is fact. I cannot lie. I am giving you a record”. Do you believe it? If you don’t, you’re calling God a liar. 1 John 1:10 –If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us
  • The return of the Canon Mind– We have a choice, but it’s not a matter of who we will bow down to, but when. You may not like the fact that „every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord”, but, it’s gonna happen. You see, God is gonna get what He came to that cross to purchase and we can stand in defiance of that and cheat God and come above Him and say, „I don’t like Your method”. Who are we to challenge God’s method? Who are we? Even the cherubim, who can rule entire worlds single handedly, and move like lightning and when they speak, their voice sounds like mighty. rushing waters. They have a brilliance that is at least a million times yours, and even they submit to God and do only that which God is doing. Who are we, that we would critique the Son of God, that we would critique His Word? Philippians 2:9-11 –  Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Where is the flaw? Is it in God or is it in us? Is God flawed? Where does the problem lie? You don’t like God’s method, you don’t like how things have turned out. Hey, there’s sickness and dying and disease in the world, God’s responsible: I couldn’t serve a God like that. Where’s the flaw? Is it in God or is it in us? Job 33:12-13- Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man13 Why dost thou strive against him? for he giveth not account of any of his matters. Remember Job has gone through some rather difficult times, come Job 33. His life has been completely brought low. His wife had said, „Curse God and die”, instead he fell down and worshipped. However, Job still struggled because he continued to defend his righteousness. He said, „Look, look, I’ve lived right. This is not appropriate behavior for God to wield against me, and Eliphaz rises up and answers, „that God is greater than man, why do thou strive against Him?”. Listen to this argument: Job 34:10,12- 37:23-24 – Therefore hearken unto me ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity. 12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment. Ch. 37  23 Touching the Almighty, we cannot find him out: he is excellent in power, and in judgment, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict. 24 Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart.
  • Is it our position to question God, to question His ways? Do you remember God coming down and speaking to Job? Job 38:1-8; 16-18; 22-23; 31; 34-37; 41 Job 40:2; 8-14 – Here’s the streamline from these texts: „Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, „Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou  me. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding, who has laid the measures thereof, if thou knows? Or who hath stretched the line upon it?… Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the cornerstone thereof ; when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Or who shut up the seas with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? … Hast thou entered unto the springs of the sea? Or hast thou walked in the search of the depth? Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? Or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?… Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? Declare if thou knows it all… Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? Or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war? … Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleaides, or loose the bands of Orion?… Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?… Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go and say unto thee, here we are? Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? Or who hath given understanding to the heart? Who can number the clouds in wisdom? Or who can stay the bottles of heaven? Who provides for the raven his food? When his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat… shall he that contends with the Almighty instruct him? He that reproves God, let him answer it… wilt thou also disannul my judgment? Wilt thou condemn Me, that thou may be righteous? Hast thou an arm like God? Or canst thou thunder with a voice like Him? Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty. Cast about the rage of thy wrath; and behold everyone that is proud, and abase him… Look on everyone that is proud, and bring him low, and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together, and bind their faces in secret. Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.
  • „I’m right God, You’re the one who is wrong. You defend your righteousness and condemn God? How dare you.The fact that this is even allowed in the Christian world, not on the liberal side; it’s always been there Conservative, Bible believing churches have now began to imbibe in this poison. „Demonstrate your beauty and glory- array yourself like God!” Then He will acknowledge that you can save yourself with your own righteousness. Do it, try it. We can’t. He are humbled before the realities that He is God and we are not.
  • Is truth evolving? Does God adapt to the culture, to the political correctness of our times? Malachi 3:6 – For I am the Lord, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Do you know what God is actually saying here? It’s not just that he doesn’t change. You want to know why you’re not consumed? „Cause I don’t change. I keep my covenant. You want to know why you’re still alive right now? Because I change not!”  Hebrews 13:8- Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, and today and forever. By the way Jesus Christ IS the Word of God. Do you know who created the heavens and the earth? The Word of God; Jesus has always been around. He didn’t just come into existence 2000 years ago. He is God. James 1:17- Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the father of lights, with whom there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Matthew 5:18-  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. The Word of God is stable, the Word of God isn’t going anywhere. The Word of God is right; we build our life upon it as the builder upon a foundation, upon a stone.
  • Is this all about our choice, our wishes, our sensibilities? Do we define God’s nature? Do we define the way we want life with God to be? What kind of Christianity do you want? How would you like your God to be? What kind of church would you like to go to? Is it on your terms? That’s a good question because, somehow we’ve begun to believe that it is (on our terms). But, that isn’t Christianity. Christianity is on God’s terms and God’s terms have been revealed in His Word, and we submit to it. We come below it, we say, „You are right; change me to fit You. Alter me, if I’m wrong, tell me so I can please You by being as I ought to be in You. So the question is: Is it about our choice? John 15:16- You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you„. You have hope because your God chose you. It has nothing to do with your choice. It has to do with His choice. He has chosen you and given you an opportunity’ take it. 1 John 4:19- We love Him, because He first loved us. He is the initiator, He is the wise one here. He stirs in us, it’s called prevenient grace. He moves inside our soul and warms us and suddenly our eyes can begin to see and: Behold the realities of the living God! We are living in death. There is nothing inside of you that would ever be attracted to God Almighty controlling your life, nothing! There are some of you that have walked from death to life, where now you see God and you’ve yielded your life to Him and now you’re happy. Where’d that come from? It came from God. Do you critique God? Do you choose God? Is it us declaring what we want or is it God declaring; I want you? 1 John 4:10- Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
  • Is truth springy? Does truth adapt and flex around us, or are we supposed to flex and adapt around God? Is truth adapting to your body weight, to your personal baggage in your life? Do you have a real difficult life and does truth stretch to meet you in an extra special way? God meets us all in the exact point where He needs us to be met: He meets us at the cross. All of us, same way, because our issues are all the same. They have different nuances, different names to it, it’s all the same- we have a problem and that is, we are controlled by the flesh, we are controlled by the principle of sin and we cannot get out. Is truth springy? Rob Bell can call Christianity brickianity, oh a stiff religionist. I don’t like a stiff religionist anymore than Rob Bell does. I want believers living and vibrant. However, we stand upon something very stiff and it is not movable, it does not stretch- depending on who we are. It is called the rock and it does not change to adapt to our sensibilities. We change our sensibilities around it. You want to climb on the rock? You climb on the rock that has always been, for 6000 years, and it’s never changed. God does not change. Deuteronomy 32:4- He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. 2 Samuel 22:2-3; 32, 47; 23:3- And he said, The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence. 32 For who is God, save the Lord? and who is a rock, save our God? 47 The Lord liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation. The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God. God is a rock, well, that’s good news because when you come inside of a rock, you’re safe because a rock doesn’t pick up and move. It’s stationary, it doesn’t alter and things can’t get through a rock. You’re secure in a rock because it doesn’t change.
  • The rock of Israel spoke to me– John 1:1-4, 14- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was GodThe same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. God spoke. It was made flesh. The Word, the very annunciation, the very expression, the very nature of God, which is what a Word is. Matthew 7:24-25-  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 1 Corinthians 10:4-  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. Jesus is the law of God made flesh. He is the histories of Israel made flesh. He is the Proverbs of God made flesh, all the prophecies, all the sacrifices, the Temple, the Sabbath, the rest made flesh. He is the full annunciation of God made flesh. He’s the rock upon which we stand and upon which we build. The text and the person, inerrant, without flaw and I say: Church of Jesus Christ, fix your feet upon Jesus and forsake that voice that says, „Did He really say?” „Yes, HE DID! And we will not be moved. When the winds and the rains come against us we will not build upon sand. Sand is a rock that has been beaten into small pieces and then the pieces that are wanted are taken. You have a foundation, but it is unstable because it is not Jesus. It is the parts of God that you esteemed, according to your own sensibilities you’ve built for yourself a foundation of your own accord, your own wit and wisdom and it will fail you.
  • What is the proper response of the believer? Job 42:1-3, 5-6- Then Job answered the Lord, and said, I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.  I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. It’s not just the hearing of the ear to behold the Living God. When you know God, you know that He is able to keep our feet from falling. You know that this God is able to construct a revelation and then observe the revelation for all time. Is this too hard for God? Because we have a lot of voices that are saying, „How in the world is that supposed to work? Can you read any other piece of literature that has been stable and unaltered for thousands of years? No, you can’t. Can you? It’s because it’s(any other literature) not supernatural. We are talking about the Word of God.
  • He will overcome when He is judged. Romans 3:4- God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judgedWhat if people don’t believe that God is able? What if they don’t believe that He is who He says He is? Will that make the merit and the legacy and the ability of God neutralized? If there was a tribunal setup, and we attempted to condemn God, He will be justified at such a tribunal and we will end up being nullified and we will end ub being found to be the idiot in the scene.

  • Shall we strike with the sword? Luke 22:46-49- And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. 47 And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him. 48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss? 49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?  What I have described to you is the leaders in the church of Jesus Christ today, and I have only given you a little snapshot, have leaned in to kiss the cheek of Jesus Christ. And, it looks so tender, and so many of us feel like we are having a difficult time in how to respond to this, because, well, they seem to really love Jesus. Do you see the multitude? Do you see they’re betraying the Son of Man into the hands of the sinners? But we are dull in our sense. Why? Because we are sleeping. We have not been alert in this time. The church of Jesus Christ has been in a slumber. Awaken us, Lord Jesus! So that we can see, as the Son of Man has been betrayed afresh into the hands of sinners. I have a message that I teach this year on translation, this is where I talk about biblical pedigree. The history of the Word of God , men and women have died to preserve dots and tittles. And in one generation, ours, they are overhauling the entirety of the Bible. The entirety! Men and women, for generations have died to preserve every last word. The entire Jewish nation, for thousands of years, preserved the Word of God saying: We will die rather than you altering one word. And, in our generation- altering the whole thing. We are sleeping. This is our watch and the wolves are in the sheep pen. I know they look like sheep; we need to mark them and we need to understand how this battle works. So we are turning to our God right now and we’re saying, „Lord, shall we strike with the sword? Our battle is not against Rob Bell, Brian MacLaren, Donald Miller and others, our battle isn’t against the,. it’s against who is puppeteering them. They could be genuine. They might not know what they are doing, however, the enemy does know what he is doing because it is his business to do this. „Did God really say that? Can we really be certain about this? It’s always undermining the certainty, the rock like substance of Jesus Christ. When you mess with the text of Scripture, you mess with the Person, Jesus Christ. You cannot mess with a text of Scripture without implying Jesus Christ, who is the Word become flesh. In some diminishing way, you are hurting Jesus. Rob Bell says he believes the virgin birth, however, he goes through this whole process of creating the argument that could be used for someone who doesn’t believe the virgin birth. It is so calculated and so dangerous because he is literally sponsoring doubt in the virgin birth. You know, if you don’t believe the virgin birth, this is no small thing. You know that the canonicity of Jesus is called into question? If Jesus is not proven to be the perfect match with all the prophecies of the Old Testament, in perfect harmony, he could be stoned as a false prophet? You remove the virgin birth, you remove the integrity of the Messiahship of Jesus Christ. We don’t mess with these things. Someone may not know what they are doing to the Word of God today. That doesn’t mean we stand by and say, „Well, at least they are sincere”. We still must get to them and say, „That’s dangerous. That’s that voice. Don’t heed that voice.” The appeal of the open mind is strong. This book that’s about to come out „Love Wins”, It’s universalism. It’s a direct question to the integrity of the Scripture  on the point of hell and judgement. Do you think I’m a huge fan of people going to hell? I’d love to change these things according to my sensibilities. God speaks and He doesn’t stutter. It’s our job to believe Him. It’s that simple. We may not fully understand it, but we believe it. Why would you believe that? Because God said it. God cannot lie, it’s His Word. We have Canon MindsMinds that are groomed by the Words of God and not by social sensibilities. You may be a bit offended by God, you better come to God and make that right because God cannot do wickedness, He is upright in all matter, He does not afflict, He is perfect in His judgment. Our God will be justified in the end. You may not understand how all this drama works, but don’t listen to the enemies take on it. The enemy is always questioning the person of God and His motives. What was he saying to Eve? „Look at God, He’s trying to rule you with an iron hand. You don’t need to submit to that. Eat of this fruit. He doesn’t want you to know that you will be as He is.” That’s the bait of the serpent. Don’t follow it. It’s self exaltation that he’s after because he knows when you yourself are imprisoned in the power of sin, but he knows when self is debased, Jesus Christ can gain access to what He purchased on that cross. This is about dying to self, not exalting self, not preserving self, not about self esteem, but self denial so that jesus Christ can gain what is rightfully His. I’m one of the happiest guys you’ll ever know because I agree with the Word of God. It doesn’t make me miserable, it makes me happy. I love Jesus! I love serving God, I trust implicitly His character and He is good! And every question that can be laid at Him, any accusation, He will overcome all judgment when laid at His feet, every last one. We are gonna bow our knee. Let’s bend it now. we are gonna confess that He is Lord, let’s confess it now. And let HIm rescue us, let Him change us, let Him purge us, let Him purify us, let Him set our feet upon a rock that is strong, fill us with love, joy , peace, faithfulness, gentleness and control to live this life as we ought to.

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from – May we be unashamed of the Gospel – Romans 1:16

William Lane Craig on Rob Bell and Hell (July 5, 2011)

Uploaded by on Jul 5, 2011 – Dr – Dr. William Lane Craig deals with the doctrine of hell in light of Rob Bell’s new book „Love Wins”. Dr. Craig also deals with common misunderstandings of hell.


Can a Loving God Send People to Hell? (William Lane Craig vs Ray Bradley):

Is One True Religion Possible?:

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William Lane Craig on Tob Bell and Hell (July 2…, posted with vodpod

Ben Witherington on the Apostle Paul and Universalism

A Quote of Note—- Paul on Universalism

see full article here. (

Dr. Witherington on Paul’s Phil. 2.5-11 verse:

One of the texts most frequently used to prove Paul believed that in the end all human beings would be saved is of course the material in the Christ hymn in Phil. 2.5-11, particularly the line “every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord….”   The problem with this conclusion is two fold.     1)  The partial quotation of Isaiah 45 provides a clue as to Paul’s thinking at this juncture since Isa. 45.24 refers not to universal salvation but rather says that “all who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame.”  2)  Phil.
1.28 has already referred to the destruction of those who oppose Christ.

Hell Yes, Hell No: A Response to Rob Bell & Love Wins, Bobby Conway

A theological review:

Life Fellowship Church Presents a seminar entitled „Hell Yes, Hell No? A Conversation about Love Wins, Rob Bell, and why you should give a rip”

Hear a scriptural response to Rob Bell from Bobby Conway as well as a panel discussion with questions from the audience. Bobby received his theological training from Central Baptist College in Conway, Arkansas, and received his Masters of Theology (ThM) from DallasTheological Seminary and his Doctorate of Ministry in Apologetics from Southern Evangelical Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Martin Bashir -Interviewed about „Love Wins” (Part 1-4, 40 minutes)

Journalist and Nightline anchor Martin Bashir ...

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Martin Bashir, who was born into a Muslim family, became a Christianand recently interviewed Rob Bell for MSNBC is interviewed by Edward Bell. Thanks to Sasha for the link.

To watch martin Bashir’s original interview of Rob Bell click her.

Videos play immediately after the completion of each clip (4 clips)

In video- Martin Bashir says- book has historical errors…is disingenuous,,, and uses deliberate avoidance of material that doesn’t work in his favor. Some great insights from Martin Bashir.

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„When you adopt universalism and erase the distinction between the church and the world,then you don’t need the church, and you don’t need Christ, and you don’t need the cross „, Al Mohler

from Al Mohler’s website.

“A Massive Shift Coming in What it Means to Be a Christian?” — TIME Magazine Considers Rob Bell

The real question is now whether the church has sufficient biblical conviction to resist this doctrinal seduction. Otherwise, it may well be that Rob Bell’s “massive shift” is the shape of things to come.

Friday, April 15, 2011

The edition of TIME magazine timed for Easter Week features a cover story on the controversy over Rob Bell and his new book, Love Wins. Interestingly, the essay is written by none other than Jon Meacham, the Pulitzer Prize-winning author and former editor of Newsweek TIME’s historic competitor. Meacham, who studied theology as an undergraduate at the University of the South, helpfully places Rob Bell in the larger context of modern theology, even as he offers a basically sympathetic analysis.

Meacham explains:

The standard Christian view of salvation through the death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth is summed up in the Gospel of John, which promises “eternal life” to “whosoever believeth in Him.” Traditionally, the key is the acknowledgment that Jesus is the Son of God, who, in the words of the ancient creed, “for us and for our salvation came down from heaven … and was made man.” In the Evangelical ethos, one either accepts this and goes to heaven or refuses and goes to hell.

Bell, Meacham writes, “begs to differ” with this “standard Christian view.” He then relates that Rob Bell “suggests that the redemptive work of Jesus may be universal — meaning that, as his book’s subtitle puts it, ‘every person who ever lived’ could have a place in heaven, whatever that turns out to be. Such a simple premise, but with Easter at hand, this slim, lively book has ignited a new holy war in Christian circles and beyond.”

Well, “holy war” is an exaggeration loved by the media, but Bell has obviously ignited a raging controversy within evangelical circles.

Meacham then traced something of the reaction to Bell’s argument:

When word of Love Wins reached the Internet, one conservative Evangelical pastor, John Piper, tweeted, “Farewell Rob Bell,” unilaterally attempting to evict Bell from the Evangelical community. R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, says Bell’s book is “theologically disastrous. Any of us should be concerned when a matter of theological importance is played with in a subversive way.” In North Carolina, a young pastor was fired by his church for endorsing the book.

All that is a matter of public record now, but what makes Meacham’s analysis really interesting is what comes next:

The traditionalist reaction is understandable, for Bell’s arguments about heaven and hell raise doubts about the core of the Evangelical worldview, changing the common understanding of salvation so much that Christianity becomes more of an ethical habit of mind than a faith based on divine revelation. “When you adopt universalism and erase the distinction between the church and the world,” says Mohler, “then you don’t need the church, and you don’t need Christ, and you don’t need the cross. This is the tragedy of nonjudgmental mainline liberalism, and it’s Rob Bell’s tragedy in this book too.

click here to read the entire post.

Other articles of interest-

Panel Discussion of Rob Bell’s book ‘Love wins’ at Gospel Coalition 2011

God: Abounding in Love, Punishing the Guilty

April 14, 2011 Notes by: Jonathan Parnell (for Desiring God)

A special session convened in light of Rob Bell’s book Love Wins. The panel, moderated by Kevin DeYoung, included D. A. Carson, Tim Keller, Crawford Loritts, and Stephen Um.

Carson framed the discussion giving a brief and clarifying overview on universalism:

1. Be clear about definition of universalism, don’t muddle what it is.

2. Universalism is built out of several different assertions: a) everyone is savingly loved by God and is reconciled to God already; b) because of the wideness of God’s mercy, people of other religions will somehow find their way to heaven; c) initially, the only lost people are those who reject God’s love; d) despite their rejection of his love, these people are still loved by God.

This set of beliefs invariably teaches other things that are often not articulated. It affects your view of atonement, impoverishes the love of God by disconnecting it from his holiness, and it assumes that Scripture always speaks the same way about God’s love.

3. Despite different claims to the contrary, universalism is a later development. It has never been accepted in confessional Christianity.

4. A few notes on biblical texts thought to defend and justify universalism:

2 Corinthians 5:19—“world” is not everyone without exception, but everyone without distinction.

Romans 5:18—“all” does not refer to the same locus of people. The broader context deals with two humanity, one in Adam and one in Christ. There is a contrast to these two different humanities.

John 12:32—“draw all people to himself,” in the context we see that Gentiles try to approach Jesus understands this as precipitated the cross. They do not come on the basis of past covenants, but on a new covenant rooted in the cross.

Revelation 21:25—”its gates will never be shut.” The symbolism of the gates open is not about whether people can get in day or night. Gates were shut for defense, but in the new heavens and new earth there is no more threat for violence.

Carson pastorally asserted that universalism’s handling of the atonement itself is deeply manipulative—even blasphemous. We must not talk flippantly about the cross of Christ, explaining that penal substitutionary atonement is not built on a proof text but is woven through the entire biblical narrative.

Panel Discussion (led by Kevin DeYoung)

To Keller — Is our response to this subject worth it?

Yes. It’s sort of like the bird in the ecosystem who if goes extinct throws off everything. Anything other than endless punishment lessens sin and the God who has been sinned against. If you take away the infinity of punishment, everything diminishes.

To Keller — There is one thread that says Bell is saying the same thing as C. S. Lewis. How do you respond?

Lewis was rebelling against the spirit of the age, which said that Hell is bad. His whole project was to tweak his contemporary scene and show that Hell and judgment make sense. It appears that Bell does just the opposite and acutally sympathizes with the spirit of the age.

To Carson — In John 10:16, does the phrase “many sheep are not of this fold” refer to other religions?

Although there are more recent readings that try to take it this way, the context is clear that “fold” refers to the Jewish people. “Not of the this fold” refers to Gentiles who are outside of the old covenant. It is about becoming one new people, Jew and Gentiles, as the church.

To Carson — What do you think this reemergence of universalism may or may not signify about underlying shifts in Christianity in North America?

This is not new. The early twentieth century and the rise of liberalism started the project of trying to defend Christianity by jettisoning everything the age considers unreasonable.

Evangelicalism is so broad and diverse, and also thinner. The newer generation is making choices: many who want to be more acceptable to this age and others who are embracing the gospel, wanting it to be heard as it is. There is a big division taking place and Bell’s book is a marker to this.

To Um — Respond to Bell’s statement that the position saying only a certain number will be saved is „misguided, toxic, and ultimately subverts Jesus’ message of love.”

There are several assumptions that need to be addressed. One assumption is that God is obliged to show favor to a sinful humanity. We should remember that Jesus spoke more about Hell than anything else. Rejecting Hell has serious implications for what we think about Jesus, undermining his entire ministry. I understand the heart: no one delights in seeing people in eternal conscious torment.

To Loritts — What would you say to someone who has cut their teeth on Bell? They are not committed to this view, but are sympathetic to it.

We all need to be careful when we talk about these things not to overcorrect. We are to love unbelievers and we are to preach the love of God. I would encourage this person, not only to pursue right exegesis on this issue, but to the study of the nature of God altogether. Look at the wholeness of who God is. Secondly, look at how we really view Scripture. Thirdly, we need to understand that God does not need a PR agent or marketing firm. The whole idea of wanting to have a Jesus who the world can embrace is wrong.

DeYoung — „God does not need a publicist, he calls preachers.”

Teachers will be judged more strictly(James 3:1). Questions are one thing, let’s talk about them all. Allow people to ask them, ask them yourself. But we must (not) stay in the realm of mystery. If you are a teacher, at some point you need to let clarity be king.

To Keller — In light of your commitment to the gospel, how did Bell’s book make you feel?

The first thing that disappointed me was not the content so much as the attitude. There is an immediate ridicule of apparent “close-minded” people. A conversation about conflict cannot begin with ridicule.

We should not pit the doctrines of God against one another. At the cross, the love and holiness of God both win.

To Carson — What advice can you give about receiving criticism? Does disagreeing immediately make you the bad guy? Where does the younger generation need tweaking here?

First, I worry about ministries that focus just on correcting everyone. What I hope to do in all my writing is to promote the truth and proclaim it positively. When we correct, we do it because we think that the glory of God is being diminished.

Part of a positive faithfulness to proclaiming the truth involves refutation. Our articulation of right doctrine also involves saying what it is not. And all our correction should be done thoughtfully and humbly.

Concluding words:

Um asserted that universalism is unhelpful for sinners in need of atonement. Universalism subverts the work of Jesus on the cross. This whole situation is a wonderful opportunity for correction, for us to understand the finished work of Christ.

Loritts encouraged those considering universalism to write down all the issues their struggling with and go to the word of God. We should ask the Spirit to illumine our minds. We have listened to too many other voice. Go to the source.

Keller agreed with with Loritts and DeYoung and closed in prayer.

Click below for audio of  panel discussion:


Below – video from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, a review of ‘Love Wins’ (from early March, 2011)

This is an excellent, informative, theologically rich, video discussion, on the various theological issues arising from Rob Bell’s new book ‘Love wins’. The panel includes: Albert Mohler (President of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary), Justin Taylor (former Crossway Managing Editor for the ESV Bible), Denny Burk (Dean of Boyce College (SBTS)  and Russell Moore (Dean of School of Theology SBTS):

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